View Full Version : SB Hybrid Carve and Phantom VS. Kona Exocet
21st August 2006, 07:22 PM
Could anyone compare? ;)
or just opinion...
(a lot of references to the Kona on the web and almost nothing about Hybrid Carve)
Is the Phantom the competitor for Kona and continuation of StarBoard Hybrids which appeared just in 2006 only?
21st August 2006, 08:33 PM
I'll put my opinion, though I haven't seen or rode any of the boards mentioned.
Me I like the Kona and would give Exocet their dues on that one!
It is a tough choice whether a Kona or Serenity would be my ride as both are very nice, but with two very different applications. I like the serenity, but you can't find good images or info which is a shame!
I am waiting for www.windsurfjournal.com to get one as they are the best online website I've seen.
So note to Starboard.... more pictures and details! I want a Serenity... but need more info comparing it to Equipes, Div 2's etc!!
p.s.. Hows does the Serenity work with a paddle and used like a kayak?
21st August 2006, 09:12 PM
I think the Kona and Serenity is totally different stuff.
So, better to compare with Hybrid Carve and Phantom which are much close and have common attributes ? daggerboard and Ducktail for light wind cruising AND planing in moderate wind ;)
21st August 2006, 09:24 PM
Hi GEN and Scotty,
Since I've sailed both the Hybrid Carve (extensively since Sept. 05) and recently the Exocet Kona for a day, I can give a little more information here.
Don't know about the Phantom yet nor the Serenity but from the photos I've seen, the Phantom/Serenity aren't going to be "dual mode" boards in quite the same way as the Hybrid Carve and Kona.
By "dual mode" I mean a board that has good performance in sub planing conditions with the center board down and good performance in planing mode with the centerboard stowed up inside the board and the gaskets closed.
Here's my "take" on this.
The Hybrid Carve is shorter and wider and weighs significantly less so in planing mode it really does feel like a big Carve (only a little heavier).
In fully planing conditions, with the centerboard up, you can plane along at nearly the same speeds as the big Carves. It's a pretty nice ride, the board goes upwind well on the fin, and it even jibes fairly nicely.
The Kona does this as well, but it feels alot bigger as the Kona is much longer so you have a lot of board up out of the water in front of the planing surfaces.
So overall the light wind feel and performance is probably similar.
When the wind comes up, both of these "dual mode" boards really take off and have pretty good planing speed.
The only real difference would be the extra weight and length of the Kona (which may to some degree enhance the sub planing performance) which does not allow it to "feel" like a smaller board when being sailed in higher winds.
There was a Kona out yesterday at the Canadian Hole in about 20 knots of wind, and (similar to my experience on the Kona) it was pretty much "keeping up" speed wise with people on 90-120 liter free ride boards.
So, overall, the Kona and the Hybrid Carve (and perhaps some other
"step hull" boards) are in a class by themselves.
I think the Phantom will compare favorably with Equipes and Div. 2 boards, but without the "step hull" it won't be a true "dual mode Hybrid".
Hope this helps,
21st August 2006, 11:29 PM
I'm kinda warey about dual purpose boards, hence me wanting a Kona but not willing to spend the money on one. For me when I sail in light winds, I want the best I can get. I have been eyeing up their Pacer X 380, but who knows if that'll come to fruition?
Although last year this time or whenever the Serenity came out I kinda thought, "not for me", I've very much warmed up to it! :)
But there are quite a few questions about it:
Talking to a friend who used to race Div 2 boards, he said going off the wind on one was very challenging. To make it easier you used to move the track and centerboard to certain positions. He had some reservations about the lack of track and centerboard on the Serenity and how this would affect this point of sail. (regardless he loves the board...probably will be signing up for one)
For me I'm curious about the storage compartment and how big it is. A board like that would be great for distance sailing, so being able to keep, phone, a few drinks and lunch would be great! Sure a backpack also works, but still it would be a nice feature if it is fairly big.
The other thought is, will the board remain one design? I don't necessarily look at it from a racing point of view, but more will the 08 be different through refinement? If it became one design then some of us who have interest would most likely buy sooner than later.
Anyway I'm sure you'll have loads of questions heading your way one they end up in the shops! For those of us without access to test centers, lots of pictures are the way to go!! B)
22nd August 2006, 03:27 PM
I definitely will try to find Hybrid Carve.
One of the reasons against Kona is the transportation/storage size.
I hope the HC will even fit inside my small Toyota Picnic :)
Why the StarBoard produced Hybrids for the year only? Was that not successful commercially? :(
Any plans to continue "dual mode" boards? B)
Oops, I just found that Hybrid Formula and Hybrid Race are available (even promised to be "frozen design" for 4 years!)
Only Hybrid Carve is missing! What happened to HC?
24th August 2006, 12:40 PM
I used to race D2 boards, and some of the competition had boards that looked a lot like the Serenity with the back 50cm cut off. They were competitive in light winds, but slower than M1s and Crit D2s in a breeze.
The early '80s D2 boards, without mast tracks and with centreboards that didn't retract all the way, were very hard to handle in a breeze compared to the later ones with fully-retracting centreboards. I love D2 type boards but I probably won't get a Serenity partly because I can't see it being any good if the breeze gets up, while the Lechner is fun in the lulls AND okay in the puffs. Given that design in D2s moved away from Serenity-style narrow bows to a Lechner-style spoon-shaped nose, I have to say I can't see why the Serenity would be all that much faster than a Lechner in light winds. Sure the waterline's longer but the whole point of the superiority of the overhanging spoon bow seemed to be that simple waterline length wasn't always vital and perhaps not worth losing the versatility.
I've sailed the Kona a bit, it seems to be a lot faster than the Prodigy and RSX in light winds (that's judging by racing against a good Prodigy, and having raced against good RSXs in the same fleet).....I don't know how they Prodigy and RSX relate to the Hybrid but I assume they're about the same???
I still can't see how the Phantom will be able to bridge the massive gap in light winds between a D2 or Equipe or Kona on one hand, and a Prodigy or RSX on the other hand (for exactly the same reason behind the Serenity design - length is good in the light) but I'll be interested in checking out race results - does anyone know of any?
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